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ChrisO
Site Admin
Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 535
Location: World citizen
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 Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2005 11:16 am Post subject: Construction delays - The big picture? |
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There seem to be many problems and delays in many projects currently being build in Dubai. There are delays on the Palm Jumeirah for about a year, Time Place, Marina Diamond 2, The Light House and many more. Some projects are still only a plot with a sign board in one corner.
Could it be that Dubai Municipality realized that they wont be able to handle the increased number of people living in Dubai in the original time frame and therefore try to delay some of the projects?
Does anyone know anything about the free capacities of the water desalination plants, the power plants and so on?
Will new plants be finished in time to provide additional capacity? |
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dubai freak
Joined: 03 Mar 2005
Posts: 881
Location: UK
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| Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2005 12:45 pm Post subject: General delays |
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You are right Chris; further construction delays can be seen in the majority of projects across Dubai. It is very understandable in developments like 'The Palm', where new construction ideas & technology are being use to recreate new land in the sea.
What I cannot understand is why developers in say The Lighthouse don't come clean with their investors, with the reasons behind all the delays. When you witness the construction of JBR, the multiple towers have gone from ground preparation work to huge towers in not much more than 12 months. In comparison TLH has taken 10 months to dig one hole & start laying foundations.
As a general comment I think the take up of development across Dubai has been so rapid, it has caught the control/design people & systems 'on the hop'. There is now a lot of retrospective planning being introduced, like the news of several new road junctions & schemes to link the various projects together. To an observer it was very obvious the existing road network could not accomodate the planned projects & expected population growth. |
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Seabee
Joined: 27 Jul 2005
Posts: 32
Location: Australia/Dubai
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| Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2005 9:33 am Post subject: |
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It's also been suggested to me that developers are slowing down a) because they're waiting for the Land Dept. to be established and laws to actually be in place and b) to spread the time-frame when projects are handed over and start to be occupied. All coming at once could probably mean an over-supply and falling prices.
It's always difficult to know in Dubai - it's full of rumours  |
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Guest
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| Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 8:35 am Post subject: |
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I think the delays are currently caused because of the new law that allows workers to take a break in the afternoon. I was told by the developer.  |
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dubai freak
Joined: 03 Mar 2005
Posts: 881
Location: UK
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 1:23 pm Post subject: Build delays/poor build quality? |
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Interesting but very disturbing article about the build quality of new villa homes within the Jumeirah Island Project (Nakheel)
From 7Days
| Quote: | Should a 2 million dirham villa look like this?
Wednesday, 09 November 2005
Residents of Nakheel’s Jumeirah Islands development allege poor quality finishing and the use of cheap materials at the multi-million dirham luxury villa development. |
To read more http://www.7days.ae/feature/should-a-2-million-dirham-villa-look-like-this-.html  |
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minime
Joined: 15 Jul 2005
Posts: 98
Location: Dubai
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:24 pm Post subject: Re: Build delays/poor build quality? |
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[quote="dubai freak"disturbing quality of new villa homes within the Jumeirah Island Project (Nakheel) http://www.7days.ae/feature/should-a-2-million-dirham-villa-look-like-this-.html [/quote]
Hmm... Was Nakheel also not involved in those villas built against a jebelside that showed gigantic cracks in the wall even before the people moved in? There where rumours that the palm developments would 'not last as long' as people might think...
This is what I am worried about with a lot of developments in Dubai. ... There is no standards and everything seems to be finished in a rush... It was to be expected but wonder what our rights are. In the Marina Diamond development we are only allowed ONE inspection tour at handover. All things noticed in this tour should be fixed by the developer.
The rest.... Welll, time will tell but should be responsability of the buyer. I find this a bit strange though because if there are cracks in the wall after say, 6months, I think the developer hould still be liable.
Let's just hoe the Marina Diamond finishings will not dissapoint or it will be very hard to sell at a later stage. 
Anyone got more doomsday reports about property in Dubai? I ventilated worries about bad quality of concrete usage a while back but NOBODY seemed to be interested. |
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dubai freak
Joined: 03 Mar 2005
Posts: 881
Location: UK
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 5:40 pm Post subject: Build quality |
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I keep getting a lift when I see Dubai & its wonderful buildings in the media, it's a year gone June since I last had a weeks holiday visit there.
I am still trying to be positive in light of making a purchase over in Dubai, but there are a lot of issues bugging me, including reading articles like this which involve big government run businesses. The Lighthouse is way behind plan so I am not getting too excited about site visits to inspect internal build quality yet, I am hoping to visit Dubai next year irrespective of build completion.
I always though all builders in Dubai offer a full 12 months guarantee? I hope this is true so as to iron out any problems. Pity its not like the UK & other countries were new builds come with a 10 year guarantee.
I might have posted this before but I'm not sure, it sound quite interesting to get a professional to check out the place (obviously only if it is cost effective) http://www.jgdubai.com/troubleshoot.htm, I am not sure if it is worth it or not?
What do you think? |
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MarinaFan
Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 7
Location: Abu Dhabi
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| Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 1:28 pm Post subject: Develop a rapport with the developer... |
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I manage the MAG 218 Community website where one of my aims is to re-assure buyers (and myself) that their investment in the tower is well-placed. One way to do that is scour the net--as I'm sure many of you have done--for as much info as possible even if not directly relevant. Another approach I feel is to develop a relationship with the developer--somewhat easy to do if in Dubai, but rather hard I admit if you areen't. In doing so--and it has taken me some time--I have gotten above all a sense about the developers commitment to the project.
Regarding guarantees the MAG PD General Manager took the position that the only real guarantee is the need of the developer to protect its reputation. If that is so, the developer would genuinely be interested in releasing property that would not only turn out well on release but keep its value over time.
What about Nakheel then? Aren't they as concerned about their reputation as anyone else? Well, yes of course, but despite that they have really messed up on some of their projects. I think there were some major oversights and a lot of negligence on their part, partly due to the size and scale of their developments.
So, how do we as inverstors protect ourselves from the same thing happening with our investments? Again I say, try to really get to know the develper. If there is a careless or indifferent attitude on their part it will come out.
Then what do you do if you discover this indiference and you've already signed the contract? I say, as long as the project has not been finished--and the further away the better--you continue to engage the developer proactively. If you can enlist the same from others then all the better--another thing I'm trying to do with the MAG 218 Community website.
Doing so will if nothing else cause the developer to begin paying more attention to the project and its details, if it weren't already. If the developer knows people are watching--not only waiting to see the finished product-- then he is going to do a better job.
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http://mag218.blogspot.com |
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ChrisO
Site Admin
Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 535
Location: World citizen
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| Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 11:38 am Post subject: Guarantees by Master Developers like Nakheel and Emaar? |
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Here is a posting I found in SCC from a developer in the Jumeirah Lake Towers:
| Quote: | Dear all,
I am writing you on behalf of Wind International Design and Property Development the holding company which includes subsidiaries such as Quest International Design and Property Development and The Wind FZ-LLC, companies which you may be more familiar with.
We have recently become aware of this website and the thread about our two towers in Jumeirah Lake Towers and would like to firstly thank you for the interest you have shown in the projects.
But, at the same time, there have been a number of things mentioned on this thread that we would like to clarify for everyone.
1.The reason for the “delay” and the initial December 2005 expected completion date not being met was the Master Developer’s delay in handing the necessary infrastructure to us to proceed with the construction. We were in fact the first private developer to obtain a plot at the JLT.
2.All individual developers are bound by the Master Developer and its schedule. If Nakheel delays anything, then there is nothing the rest of us can do. As you can see, these kinds of delays are normal in Dubai, ie. Jumeirah Islands, Palm Deira, and many other master developments, as you will see in the future.
3.Part of our delay had been caused by a one-year discussion with Nakheel about the implementation of lofts, and getting approval it. We are proud to say that we were the first developer to have implemented lofts, as you can see by checking our plans and the dates on them.
4.Our architects are expert professionals from around the world, usually with decades of experience behind them. Also, we have a world-famous team of consultants working with us, and they have a background in working on major projects such as Burj Dubai, Emirates Towers, etc…
5.Wind International was recently proud to announce the establishment of Wind General Trading in Dubai. Its primary aim is to import the best construction material from around the world (China, Canada, etc…)
6.Our clients have always been kept up-to-date about any delays, changes in schedules, work schedules, etc…
7.In terms of construction news, we can state that we are set to go with raft foundation rather than piling for Wind Tower I. We are currently finalizing the matter.
8.Also, some people asked about guarantees about companies going “pop”. In response, we can state developers aren’t given permits to launch and sell projects without guarantees. Our guarantee is AED 100 million worth of property from Nakheel.
9.Also, it must be emphasized that the number of floors present on the thread title is incorrect. Both Wind Towers will be 5B + G + 45 Levels + Upper Roof (5B + G + Mechanical Floor + 29 Floors).
We hope that this answers some of your questions and from afar it seems that we are the first developer to actually communicate through these boards with people and we thank you for giving us this opportunity to do so. |
Point number 8 is especially interesting. Never heard of that before and I would like to know if something like that is also done for Dubai Marina projects with Emaar? |
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MarinaFan
Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 7
Location: Abu Dhabi
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| Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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Very interesting that the developer is not only looking at the forum but has responded. I think Skyscrapercity forums are good, but sort of in a better than nothing sense. I don't knock the guys and gals who contribute hundreds and even thousands of posts, but not enough people in the know are sharing information.
About no. 8, I don't really understand what he's saying. It sounds like he's saying they have paid 100 million to Nakheel for this land and so if the project falls through they lose out on their investment. But is this really what he's saying. If so, this really isn't a guarantee. Even if the project falls through they could still turn around and sell the land to someone else.
I asked MAG developer about guarantees for MAG 218 and he basically said the guarantee is the company's name. That might not count for much--look at Nakheel. But in the case of MAG they brand their towers with their name so that gives a little more weight to such a guarantee.
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ChrisO
Site Admin
Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 535
Location: World citizen
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| Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2006 10:42 am Post subject: Delays and who causes them... |
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Here is another very interesting and detailed posting of the Wind Spokesperson posting on SCC. IMO it gives a nice insight into the situation in Dubai and how the developers are dependent on the good will of the master developers like Emaar and Nakheel. Also shows that JLT will be behind schedule for ALL projects for at least 18 months! Example: Wind Tower handover was planned for end of 2005, Nakheel wont allow ANYONE living in JLT before mid-2007 the earliest.
| Quote: |
1) Firstly a few of you have been enquiring about the official height of the towers. I have had a chat with our architects and here is the information:
Wind Tower I = 138.50 meters (Upto the top of the parapet)
Wind Tower II = 136.51 meters (Upto the top of the parapet)
These figures represent the functional heights of the towers in question.
2) With regards to one of SUR's enquiries. The most up-to-date designs are on the www.windtowers.net website. Please check that for reference.
3) Next, With regards to the matter about 3 floors, well I can tell you that 3 floors, which had never been put up for sale, were removed from the final designs, despite being present on the preliminary ones.
To understand why this was done, please pay attention to the following explanation. As I have already mentioned before we were the first developer to introduce lofts in our towers, and they met international standards in height. However, Nakheel the Master Developer persisted on increasing the height well above international standards and this caused us to be engaged with them in long-term discussions ot resolve this matter. Eventually, we had to cave in and raise the heights, which basically turned our lofts into full-on duplexes! However, due to the increase in the cubic meters per unit, we would have to incur extra costs, which we did not even compel the client to make. In turn, to keep the overall height of the tower unchanged, we were forced to remove three floors from the tower, losing approximately AED 10 million per floor and an overall AED 30 million in lost income. These floors were removed from the sections of the tower which were being kept for rent or later sale. Furthermore, the level of all your units have been unchanged. You will still be at the same height that you had previously been located at, although the floor number could possibly be different. Finally, none of the floors from the mechanical floor upwards have been affected.
To sum up, we are incurring additional costs, which we could have possibly avoided had we scrapped the concept on the whole, but in order to fulfill our promises to our clients, we have had to sacrifice sales, income and ultimately revenue. However, most of all, we fell behind schedule due to the long-lasting discussions with Nakheel.
4) We have had 4 contractor packages already, and that goes a long way to have made sure that we are not just a "hole in the ground". EWFI, and Dutch Foundation have been among the notable contractors that have completed work on the plots, and this work includes, excavation, shoring, dewatering, etc...
Now, Wind Urban Design and Contracting will jointly undertake the main contracting of the tower. The main contractor has alread been selected but we are awaiting final approval. Wind Italian Design will handle the finishing. Also we have already ordered and have either received most of the material that will be used to build our towers, despite not being able to start the foundaiton of Wind Tower I. We are trying to get as far forward as we can get whilst waiting for the Master Developer to give the go-ahead for the foundation, which I will explain in further detail below.
In fact, we have ordered enough material including steel, cement, and marbles of the highest quality from the United States for our entrances and lobby area, and they will be used not only for these two towers but there is enough to be used for 6-7 other projects. Therefore, we are as ready as we can be to minimize any such "delays". But somethings are out of our hands.
5) With regards to why there is a delay at the moment, please pay attention to the below.
Our experts, advisors and consultants undertook numerous tests including two major soil tests to prove beyong a doubt that we would not require to undertake any piling for Wind Tower I and could instead apply raft foundation and box foundation. This system had not been used in any of the towers at JLT but has been used elsewhere including JBR. However, Nakheel has been reluctant to give the go-ahead despite our senior advisor, Dr. Colaco, himself a designer for the Burj Dubai, contesting their reluctance and giving his expert opinion on the matter. Finally, yet again, after many months delay and despite further confirmation attestation of other results, we have reached a compromise with the Master Developer which would mean that a third party, Swiss Boring, be brought in to take one final soil test, after which we expect to have the permit to start construction. Until this matter is resolved we cannot go ahead, obviously. All our clients are aware of this exhausting matter of the soil test, and I would be shocked if you have not been made aware of it and will look into it personally if you confirm that this is the first that you have heard of it SUR.
6) With regards to us receiving payments from our clients and collecting 80% of the instalments, I can categorically say that the most that we have received from clients has been approximately 50% and not more. Overall, we have only received approximately 25% of the overall projected income for Wind Tower! We project to obtain almost 50% of our income through sections of the tower which have not yet been sold or from sections that have been retained for rent in the future! The value of the land itself accounts for 30% of the overall costs, so that in itself shows that we have spent more we have received. This is not to mention to all the construction material that has been on order, mentioned above. I can assure you that we are taking all strides to ensure that the final hand-over of this property is as smooth as possible. Also, with regards to clients payment plans, a large proportion had chosen the 60-40 plan whereas 40% would be paid upon completion.
Most assuringly, I can tell you that ALL the income which we have received from sales has either been put back into the same project OR been put towards expanding our portfolio of investments around the world. If you check www.windint.com you will see a selection of these. Our investments are worth $2 billion worldwide as mentioned before.
7) I can tell you that when our clients were informed of the "change" in completion date, only 5% of them had truly been affected by the original completion date of December 2005. Almost 95% had bought through resells or had bought later than the others, at a time when their contract had the new completion date so therefore they had bought in the knowledge of the current situation. About a December 2006 completion date, as mentioned before, no one will be allowed onto the JLT site to inhabit any of the buildings before mid-2007 at the earliest, according to the Master Developer. Our expected completion date is our approximation of when we expect our work to be done. Obviously the delay with regards to the soil test can have an impact, however, be assured that no one will choose to finish before the Master Developer allowing people to inhabit the area and this will not happen before all infrastructure is handed over by them. Otherwise, private developers will be incurring thousands and thousands of Dirhams a day in maintanence of their towers.
8 ) Our policy on compensation is that we will not provide any compensation currently, as the nature of the current delays have been of the kind that have been largely outside our control. I understand your frustration, and we have rescheduled their payments to more favorable terms. Some clients pose special circumstances, where it would be best for them to contact our CSD, and I assure you that your feelings will be heard out and taken into consideration. I am sure that you have already taken this step. I suggest you wait for the reply. We have even assisted unhappy clients to cancel their units and again this is beneficial for us as our original prices were so low that now when we re-market those units we are selling them at a much higher price and this works in our favor. But, we try our best to retain our old clients. But again, this is your decision.
9) Some of the pictures on this thread have been attributed to "Nakheel's parking", but I can assure you that the pictures in question of this parking area are ours. This parking and shopping area is being built by Ascon for us. We have invested money and paid money for this and Nakheel does not do anything for free for any developer in JLT. All the shops in that outdoor parking are owned by us. The parking will be shared between 3 plots, 2 of which are Wind Tower I and II.
Finally, I am disappointed to hear your frustration but I understand. I am disappointed to hear that you dont trust our company and hope that we can change your mind and ease your fears. If you would like we could arrange a meeting where you would be able to make a site visit and check our construction zones and other projects. If we have failed to communicate properly with you, then I apologize and hope that in the future this won't happen. Although I must say that our PR Department has consistently made weekly updates which is being sent out by our CSD and that the CSD is in constant contact with our clients and customers. In general, it is safe to say that we are not hiding away or shying away from anyone or any criticism. We are hear to listen to your qualms.
At any rate, this answer has taken me a long time to compile as I have had to contact many departments for some of the information and I hope that it is quite useful to the readers. |
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MarinaFan
Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 7
Location: Abu Dhabi
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| Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2006 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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"At any rate, this answer has taken me a long time to compile..."
Just before coming to this line I was thinking the exact same thing--that the developer had probably spent hours (in more than one sitting) on this thorough response. That is commendable.
Is this yet one more example of Nakheel not living up to expectations, by having people believe that JLT would be open for business long before what is now seen as possible? I always wonder when I pass the site, "Where is the lake?" At least Emaar had the marina canal in place well before the buildings began to come up.
This letter makes interesting reading for buyers in any project because it provides some insight into the dynamics of the developer, master-developer and customer relationship. (All the detail about the piling issue is just classic.) It would also suggest that a bit of prodding and persistance from inverstors will probably get detailed responses--though perhaps not as forthcoming is this.
Thanks for posting it.
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lawyer239
Joined: 27 Jul 2005
Posts: 596
Location: London
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| Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2006 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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Seen the Sunday Times property pages today and their take on delays in Dubai??
Lawyer |
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dubai freak
Joined: 03 Mar 2005
Posts: 881
Location: UK
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| Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 9:28 pm Post subject: Sunday Times article 22/01/06 |
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Lawyer wrote:
| Quote: | | Seen the Sunday Times property pages today and their take on delays in Dubai?? |
Dubaiflo has posted the full article on SSC
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=280373
Makes interesting reading . . . . |
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